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Overdraft
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 339
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 Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:11 am Post subject: Diesel Street Trucks, Rules, FWD & TWD |
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A few questions.
1. Are the rules posted on the MPA site correct, current and set for two more years for diesels?
2. Can a diesel engine run in the TWD class?
3. Are engine, chassis and driveline modifications allowed as long as they are not specifically "rulled out" in the current rules for the diesel street class?
4. Can I run, in the street class, a mechanical OEM fuel pump?
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uglypossum
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| the answer to #2 is no. the rules say gasoline not diesel |
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Chris611
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 95
Location: Knoxville, IA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:04 am Post subject: |
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1) I believe them to be current and up to date. You are the only one with access to them, so I don't believe that they have changed since they were set last year. Since the diesel classes were new to the organization, the board decided that the would only be locked in for 1 year. So they will be up for debate the winter and may change for next year.
2) See above post from uglypossum
3) From the rules:
Transmission and transfer case must be OEM 1 ton or less.
Engine swaps between manufactures are not permitted. Engine must have
been available in 1 ton or less production truck.
Transmission and transfer case must be OEM 1 ton or less. OEM Chassis is
mandatory. Wheel tubs, back half conversions, tube chassis, etc… are
prohibited
I would say yes, if the "modification" you want to do is not specifically called out as a violation and does not violate the current rules or new rules that have yet to be determined, it would be legal.
4) From the rules: The fuel injection pump is limited to OEM engine model specific pump only. The use of multiple high-pressure common-rail pumps is prohibited. Powerstroke engines with a single factory turbo may utilize a second HPOP. Pumps from different years in the same engine may be interchanged.
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Chris Pfoltner
Street Diesel
2005 White Duramax/Allison K2500 |
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Overdraft
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:16 am Post subject: |
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3) Can I use a driveline and engine classified as "1 ton" from a Europen manufacture?
3.1) Example, Chevy chassis runs a Isuzu diesel engine, Ford runs a International engine and Dodge runs a Cummins engine. If one of these manufactures offered an alternate diesel manufactued engine in a Euro series version of "USA" trucks, can it be run in the MPA as long as the engine/chassis combo was factory "1 ton" in the country it was sold?
4) And I quote " The fuel injection pump is limited to OEM engine model specific pump only."
I see/agree with this
4.1) And I quote this also "The use of multiple high-pressure common-rail pumps is prohibited."
So as I asked before, can I run additional "mechanial" "non common rail pump(s)"
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Overdraft
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| Chris611 wrote: | | 1)You are the only one with access to them, so I don't believe that they have changed since they were set last year. |
Yea, that's cute dick head.
You & Kevin wrote them, All I did was post 'em up.
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DGAS 512 BBC
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Okay this drum already has holes beat in it! Everyone is already well aware that there are some huge holes in the rules. Do we need to do this all over again like the dumb fucking 133 inch wheelbase rule for smoker trucks? We dont need a thousand page rulebook to make this work guys, use your head. If your not going to build it or use it then dont waist the time poking holes in the rules. If you have a question talk to your class rep! Some of these things will be fixed this winter i hope so we can stop hearing about the what ifs that will never happen. |
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knagel
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 128
Location: Grinnell, Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Overdraft wrote: | 3) Can I use a driveline and engine classified as "1 ton" from a Europen manufacture?
3.1) Example, Chevy chassis runs a Isuzu diesel engine, Ford runs a International engine and Dodge runs a Cummins engine. If one of these manufactures offered an alternate diesel manufactued engine in a Euro series version of "USA" trucks, can it be run in the MPA as long as the engine/chassis combo was factory "1 ton" in the country it was sold?
4) And I quote " The fuel injection pump is limited to OEM engine model specific pump only."
I see/agree with this
4.1) And I quote this also "The use of multiple high-pressure common-rail pumps is prohibited."
So as I asked before, can I run additional "mechanial" "non common rail pump(s)" |
Are you asking about using a "lift" or transfer pump. If so then yes. There is a difference between a fuel pump, High Pressure pump and and injection pump.
A mechanical injection pump is used on traditional diesel engines before electronics were introduced. These pumps were timed with the engine and produced a high pressure fuel squirt that would force the injector nozzels to open thus producing a spray in the combustion chamber. These pumps are like a motor in itself as it has pistons that move up and down sucking fuel in and pushing fuel out at the right time through individual injection lines to the injector.
Then we have electronic diesel engines. These engines use an electonically fired injector that is in time with the engine through the computer. These injectors require a fuel source to produce high pressure constantly to the injectors so when they open it produces a spray. These injectors have nozzels just like the mechanical ones but the electornic part is like a switch, they open and close based on an electric pulse vs. the amount of fuel in the plunger on a mechanical pump. Here is where the high pressure pump plays its roll. I needs to produce high fuel pressure all the time to an electric injector so when it opens the fuel is there waiting to be used.
Now that you have diesel 101 covered.... street diesel is stock. What came on the engine mechanically stock. If you need a lift pump or transfer pump to help get to fuel to the mechanical pump or high pressure pump so it can do what it is designed for then this is allowed.
As far as if you want to go pull in Europe..... good luck..... I heard you need to visit Amsterdam tho. 
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2006 GMC CCSB, diesel LBZ motor, 6" Fabtech lift, 37x12.5x18 BFG MT, fiberglass ram air hood, 5" mitered stack, weight rack, rear blocks, loops and shields, |
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Overdraft
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| DGAS 512 BBC wrote: | | Okay this drum already has holes beat in it! Do we need to do this all over again like the dumb fucking 133 inch wheelbase rule for smoker trucks? |
It's not 133" that matters, it's the %, have your guidance counselor find your helmet. Beat the drum & poke holes...? Find a fucking tape measue, have 1st grader teach you what the "little marks are" and what the % key is.
After that, take the little end that you pull on to make the rest of the tape remove itself from the carry case (you know the one with the "L" shape that's easy to grip) and have your little buddy hold it at the center of the front axle and walk it back to the center of the real axle, wright that number down (try not to use crayola crayons from your school, you will need to do this with other makes and models(of 4x4 trucks).
Oh, wait...sorry. I forgot to explain the advantage/disadvantage of long wheel base, hitch length, pull point, hitch angle (that every other puller knows, except you), oh yea, I forgot the fact that you think 133" is the fucking point.
Here are few basic's (not in any order, so put your index fingure down)
wheel base to hitch length
weight and placement of weight
hitch point & angle degree
pull point & chain length
If these are regulated, engine, driveline & tires work themselves out.
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Overdraft
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:33 am Post subject: |
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Kevin, thanks but I do need a little more crystal clear help.
Can I run a current USA manufactured model 1ton if it was available with a Euro diesel that would not be considered "1 ton" by USA standard, but was considered "light truck" engine & installed in these trucks by Euro stds.?
Thx,
Bryan
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Harold Phipps
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:23 am Post subject: |
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Sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong, (but hasn't stopped me before), "light truck" generally means 2 ton or less, so with your train of thought, since a Ford came with a IH built engine, and you wanted to use an engine available in a "light truck", a feller could put a DT466 in an F-250.
"1 ton and less", and "Light Truck" are worlds apart.
I'm thinkin that is one bridge ya all better not cross.
BUT, just my opinion.
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